Tuesday, June 5, 2007

A sad role reversal

This picture shows the sad result of canine domestication.

The wild turkey is one of the most paranoid, easily-spooked, and cowardly animals in all of creation. The dog was created to be a fierce hunter, indeed a virtual stalking machine. Yet, in this picture, as you can see with your own eyes, ole' snoopy cowers in fear as two male turkeys strut in a pose of domination over the disgraced dog!

You can almost hear the turkeys giggle as they see the sheepish dog melt away in fright.

For what has man done to a once proud species?

19 comments:

M. Jay Bennett said...

Or maybe the dog is reveling in the glory of domestication, because the turkeys are on the other side of the fence where they have to scrounge for food 24-7 and be on constant guard for fear of bigger toms, coyotes, and humans with guns.

Phantom495@aol.com said...

Your fear of the canine species astounds me!

AJF said...

My fear of canine species? huh?

Qayaq said...

Maybe it is just not a very "manly" dog, another dog might go crazy trying to get at the turkeys.

Frontier Forest said...

Where in the “world” do you come up with some of these pics? Your expressions were insightful, and I do feel sorry for ole’ Rover, such a coward, but Jay Bennett got the “ouch” all over you!

M. Jay Bennett said...

Tony,

You wrote, "The dog was created to be a fierce hunter, indeed a virtual stalking machine."

I wonder, do you think God created carnivores as carnivores? Or did animals become carnivores as a result of the Fall?

AJF said...

I think carnivores were created to be carnivores. No death before the fall refers to humans, not animals, in my opinion.

M. Jay Bennett said...

Interesting, I tend in the other direction. No death at all (not even plants) prior to the Fall.

Of course I'm sure you are well aware that that creates a problem with regard to carnivores in the fossil record. My response is that humans lived back then, just very very few. Too few to expect to find remains.

AJF said...

No plant death? Except for what the lions ate? I'll be those spiders love eating plants. Sharks must have loaded up on seaweed? Carnivorous teeth formed after the Fall? Barracudas ate plants, then their teeth suddenly sharpened and they devoured other fish? Vultures ate what? The Venus Flytrap plants ate leaves that just happened to fall in their jaws? What did snakes eat?

M. Jay Bennett said...

Hey if God can curse a serpent so that it goes from legs to no-legs, then I'm sure he could pull off an original world where all that was eaten was fruit and teeth were sharpened for meat consumption as a result of the Fall.

After all what did he say to the serpent? "Cursed are you above all livestock, an above all beasts of the field."

What's the implication? That the other animals were cursed as well. Maybe with sharp teeth and ravenous appetites?

AJF said...

I'll grant you, all things are possible with God.

I don't think the text demands an anti-carnivore interpretation.

Qayaq said...

In Genesis after the flood God made a covenant with Noah, in chapter 9 verse 2, "The fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth and upon every bird in the heavens, upon everything that creeps on the ground and all the fish of the sea. Into your hands they are delivered." Verse 3, " Every living thing shall be food for you. And as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything." (ESV)
I will have to look into some commentaries on the subject but it seems to be saying the same way you ate plants, as it was intended before the fall, men were probably farmers, I now give you animals to eat. Now the animals will fear man. Animals may not have been vegetarians prior to this we have no way of knowing. They are intricately designed to survive, each species having some sort of unique defense mechanism that could not have just evolved by chance according to what was neccesary.
I wonder if plants are considered to be alive in the sense that animals and humans are. Animals have spirit and a mind which moves their bodies freely the same way people do, but plants do not.

Romans 8: 19-22 "For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. 20For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope 21that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. 23And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies." (ESV)

It sounds like Adam, our representative head, fell and subjected all humanity, even the animals, to the futility and pains of the cycle of life and death. All creation seems to be waiting for the eventual end of sin and suffering. "The creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it." What futility? "The creation itself will be set free." Free from what if they are acting as they are created? Verse 23 states that creation is groaning in anticipation for the adoption of sons. What are animals set free form if they died before the fall, why are there lives futil?

Tony, do you believe in long creation days, the "Gap Theory" or Theistic evolution?

AJF said...

I'm not saying people were carnivores before the fall, I don't know. I am saying that it's probably likely that animals were carnivores before the fall. Can't know for sure.

I definitely am not a proponent of any kind of evolution, so NO, I do not believe in "theistic evolution", on exegetical grounds.

On the same exegetical grounds, I am uncertain as to the length of days. They very well could have been 24 hour days, or they could have been "anthropomorphic" days, periods of undefined length. The "Gap theory" doesn't appeal to me, but I suppose it is possible exegetically.

Warning- don't fire all the "it has to be 6-24 hour days or you are on the slippery slope to liberalism" crud at me. I won't post them.

Qayaq said...

Just engaging in a friendly debate.

Frontier Forest said...

Sure a lot of very deep, Spiritual volley-balling going on over a couple of turkeys and one cowardly dog?

AJF said...

No problem Qayaq, I wasn't talking to you personally, just heading off a possible slew of posts in general.

Woody's right, this post is about the tragedy of canine domestication...now that's a result of the Fall!

Qayaq said...

My wife and I have three Jack Russell Terriers. Between the three of them the don't even weigh 50 #. But between them they kill anything that is stupid enough to come into their domain and go crazy trying to get things that know if they stay on the other side of our fence they are safe.

List of kills do date:
Rabbits, Squirrels, birds that fly too low or are walking on the ground, snakes, frogs, moles, they even go after deer but of course can't catch them.
I guess what you are saying is that people are making animals too soft.
If aliens came to our planet and observed us, especially in the urban areas, they would think dogs are royalty and they are in charge and man is his slave. Point of fact, they don't have to work, they get their food, shelter and everything they need for free, they even have resorts for dogs now, the main thing that puts them in charge is the fact that we follow them around and pick up their "doody!" Now I ask you who is the master and who is the servent?

J Dogg said...

At least dogs aren't cats.

AJF said...

yeah...adding intelligence to such messed up pysche's would mean the death of us all...