Monday, August 25, 2008

Where's the Papal Bull when it's actually justified?

Several people sent me a link to this telling video clip with Nancy "Church Historian and ardent, practicing Catholic" Pelosi.

Why the Pope doesn't excommunicate this lady on the spot is beyond me.


Frontier Forest said...

She makes me boiling crazy! I would to the Lord that the Pope get in the middle of this one. She is a disgrace to Catholicism! I can’t listen to her nor will I watch her. She is power crazed, and her manipulating control is down right scary.

GUNNY said...

Funny, the Roman Catholic church has doesn't appear as "confused" on this issue as she makes it sound.

In fact, I get the impression they would say she is misrepresenting her church for political gain.

I doubt that's cool in the church's eyes.

Kampfgruppe-H said...

According to 'Science' there is no doubt when life begins- conception. This is one instance where the pro-abortion folks ignore science. Of course, she throws in a red herring with the contraception bit; and I love the 'making abortion safe' for the baby?

Naturally, if Augustine said life begins at three months (I admit I need to read up on his view), he certainly didn't have the benefit of modern science and medicine.

Frontier Forest said...

Tony, did Augustine really say that?

Rick Calohan said...

It was Aquinas not Augustan, who wrote about when life begins, and Aquinas said, when a zygote forms life begins, and the killing of innocent life is a sin. On a side not Praise God that Tony’s parents did not abort since yesterday was his 37th birthday, Happy Belated Birthday Tony!, if I had my gestational calendar I would say that 40 weeks prior was your real birthday, so sometime around Thanksgiving 1970 you were fearfully and wonderfully made.

Psalm 139:14 I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made.[1] Wonderful are your works; my soul knows it very well.

It is my view that all Pro-Choice/Death Christians political or otherwise should be excommunicated from the Body of Christ until they by the grace of God repent of their wicked and evil ways!

2 Chronicles 7:14 if my people who are called by my name humble themselves, and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and heal their land.

Article at NRO:

What Makes a Speaker Catholic?
Buying into Pelosi’s personal church.

By Kathryn Jean Lopez

Madmup1943 said...

Madmup1943 says according to the Catholic Church, life begins at conception (I'm Catholic and am not confused on this issue). Unfortunately, the Speaker of the House has no conception about when life begins nor does her colleague, Borack Obama. Both of these people belong in the zoo and not in Washington making laws for the rest of us to follow. When does the revolution begin . . . .

Reepicheep said...

Rick wroteabout Tony:

"so sometime around Thanksgiving 1970 you were fearfully and wonderfully made."

Tony says:

Thanks for that image. I really appreciate it. I hope my mother doesn't read this post...

Frontier Forest said...

Thanks Rick for reminding us, but So sorry Pastor Tony, I forgot to wish you a happy day on the Lord's Day.

icareforpreemies said...

Wow! I have never respected this person but she just made a fool of herself. She must be RC in name only because she clearly has missed the RC message on when life begins. As for Obama's lack of answering Rick's question those who are undecided should stop and think about his ability to make tough decisions when the occasion calls for it. He is a fence rider! Just what we need as the leader of the country. I am greatful that our lord is in control and that he is not surprised by these things. He is the only one who knows his and her heart.

Zach said...

Found an interesting summary of St. Augustine's views on abortion in "Augustine Through the Ages: An Encyclopedia":

Abortion: Augustine, in common with most other ecclesiastical writers of his period, vigorously condemned the practice of induced abortion. Procreation was one of the goods of marriage; abortion figured as a means, along with drugs which cause sterility, of frustrating this good. It lay along a continuum which included infanticide as an instance of "lustful cruelty" or "cruel lust" (nupt. et conc. 1.15.17). Augustine called the use of means to avoid the birth of a child an "evil work": a reference to either abortion or contraception or both (b. conjug. 5.5).

Augustine accepted the distinction between "formed" and "unformed" fetuses found in the Septuagint version of Exodus 21:22-23. While the Hebrew text provided for compensation in the case of a man striking a woman so as to cause a miscarriage, and for the penalty to be exacted if further harm were done, the Septuagint translated the word "harm" as "form," introducing a distinction between a "formed" and an "unformed" fetus. The mistranslation was rooted in an Aristotelian distinction between the fetus before and after its supposed "vivification" (at forty days for males, ninety days for females). According to the Septuagint, the miscarriage of an unvivified fetus were vivified, the punishment wa a capital one.

Augustine disapproved of the abortion of both the vivified and unvivified fetus, but distinguished between the two. The unvivified fetus died before it lived, while the vivified fetus died before it was born (nupt. et con. 1.15.17). In referring back to Exodus 21:22-23, he observed that the abortion of an unformed fetus was not considered murder, since it could not be said whether the soul was yet present (qu. 2.80).

The question of the resurrection of the fetus also exercised Augustine, and sheds some light on his views on abortion. Here again he referred to the distinction between the formed and unformed fetus. Though he acknowledged that it was possible that the unformed fetus might perish like a seed, it was also possible that, in the resurrection, God would supply all that was lacking in the unformed fetus, just as he would renew all that was defective in an adult. This notion, Augustine remarked, few would dare to deny, though few would venture to affirm it (ench. 33.85). At another point Augustine would neither affirm nor deny whether the aborted fetus would rise again, though if it should be excluded from the number of the dead, he did not see how it could be excluded from the resurrection (civ. Dei 22.13).


And, Tony, I agree that some form of ecclesiastical penalty is in order for Pelosi. The most logical first step would be for Bishop Niederauer of SF to follow the protocol for denying her communion for her obstinate persistence in manifest grave sin.

Frontier Forest said...

Good words of explanation! And as I read two times, I gleaned that Agustine stated, there is no justification for murder of the unborn! Thanks for the research Brother Zach.