Wednesday, February 18, 2009

How long will the Vatican allow this mockery?

A college friend of mine was raised by his grandfather. He seemed to handle it alright, but his little sister (7 years younger) totally worked her aging grandfather. She would constantly test Grandpa doing things she knew were against the rules. He would raise his voice a little to make her comply, but if she offered any resistance he didn't really back down, he just acted like nothing had happened. It was both frustrating and sad to watch. Here was this dignified older man being mocked by this little girl.

The longer the Roman Catholic Church and her Pope allow Nancy Pelosi to run around calling herself an "ardent" Catholic, the more it reminds me of the above scenario.

The following was reported by today:

Pelosi, Pope Have No Meeting of the Minds

U.S. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi met Pope Benedict XVI at the Vatican Wednesday morning, but may not have had a meeting of the minds if the two statements from their offices are any indication.

No journalists were at the 15-minute encounter and the Vatican and the speaker's offices have not released any photos. However, according to their statements it appears the pope and the politician attended two different get-togethers.

"His Holiness took the opportunity to speak of the requirements of the natural moral law and the Church's consistent teaching on the dignity of human life from conception to natural death which enjoins all Catholics, and especially legislators, jurists and those responsible for the common good of society, to work in cooperation with all men and women of good will in creating a just system of laws capable of protecting human life at all stages of its development," the Vatican wrote, having released the statement moments before the two met.

Several hours later, Pelosi's office gave her take on the tete-a-tete.

"It is with great joy that my husband, Paul, and I met with his Holiness, Pope Benedict XVI today," Pelosi said in a statement released hours after the meeting.
"In our conversation, I had the opportunity to praise the Church's leadership in fighting poverty, hunger and global warming, as well as the Holy Father's dedication to religious freedom and his upcoming trip and message to Israel. I was proud to show his Holiness a photograph of my family's papal visit in the 1950s, as well as a recent picture of our children and grandchildren."

The pontiff has a long history of urging Catholic politicians to toe the line on abortion, and has said that those who don't shouldn't take communion. Pelosi supports abortion rights and says she's never been denied communion at her church in San Francisco.

In 2002, the Vatican issued a doctrinal note on "The Participation of Catholics in Political Life," which states rather succinctly that politicians who profess to be Catholic have a "grave and clear obligation" to oppose any law that attacks human life.

That note was approved by John Paul II but signed by none other than Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger. He's now the pope.

The speaker does not share that belief, and even got into a verbal slugfest with American bishops last August after her statements on a news program about the Church's view of when life begins.

"I would say that as an ardent, practicing Catholic, this is an issue that I have studied for a long time. And what I know is, over the centuries, the doctors of the church have not been able to make that definition. And St. Augustine said at three months, we don't know. The point is, is that it shouldn't have an impact on the woman's right to choose," she said at the time on NBC's "Meet the Press."

She then added that the Church has only held the view for 50 years or so that life begins at conception. The remarks earned her widespread corrections by Catholic clerics.

Obviously Rome doesn't care about the rogue schismatic who blogs under the name of the valiant mouse-warrior Reepicheep, so I bid Roman Catholics who value their church's teaching on human life to make their voices heard to their priests, bishops, and the Pope. If enough members of the Roman Catholic church voice their disagreement with the notion of leaving Nancy Pelosi "in communion" perhaps some disciplinary action might happen. For all my differences with Roman Catholicism, all of Christendom should follow her example in advocacy for the unborn at the grassroots level. I am critical because I believe practicing discipline on members who so publicly and blatantly violate the church's teaching will have a profound positive impact on the culture at large (not to mention their church). The Roman Catholic Church has an opportunity like no other church to make a global statement for God's righteous standard.

It may seem unlikely in a hierarchical church like the RC Church to see an ecclesiastical action come from a groundswell, but I'm convinced the Vatican pays attention to opinions. Why else does the Pope hesitate to discipline politicians like Pelosi? Fear over membership loss has to be the main motivator in letting Pelosi and others mock the church like she does. It's not enough that she is "pro-abortion", she promotes and advocates abortion. She advances abortion in the U.S. and abroad. Determining Pelosi's guilt is not a complex case. It seems there is a fear of backlash among quite a few Roman Catholics if Pelosi and others like her are excommunicated.

Did I mention Pelosi's view of birth control? Her view of homosexual practice?


Zach said...

I couldn't agree more, Tony. She should be slapped, and often, by someone who knows how. That such a wicked woman is allowed to call herself "Catholic" is a great crucifixion to serious Catholics who love the faith.

There've been enough strong statements made. What we need from the hierarchy is a little less conversation, a little more action. That's my prayer.

Reepicheep said...

Zach, I'm guessing you have voiced this in your Parish? Do you sense any movement "upstream" on this?

To tell you the truth, I'm shocked Benedict hasn't been more forceful on this. He tends to pull no punches, which I appreciate. I just can't figure this out except it's a fear for losing numbers.

Rick Calohan said...


I think Pontiff made it clear his view and defending the Roman Catholic Church teaching on Abortion, the problem begins in excommunicating the Archbishops, Bishops and Priest who are in collusions with the Bidens, Kerrys, Kennedys, and San Fran Gran Nan on the issue of Abortion and also with regards to the Homosexual Agenda and Illegal Immigration with Sanctuary Cities. Obviously, the problem with the American Roman Catholic Church goes back to liberal seminary professors and students of the 1950s and 1960s who now are in charge in American Roman Catholic Archdioceses and the plague of liberal Theology. This is also true of mainline Protestant denominations in America.

The collapse of Orthodox Biblical Christianity in the majority of American churches explains the widespread cover-ups in the child and adult sexual abuse scandals along with the practices of many a cafeteria Catholics and Protestants on issues such as abortion and contraception.

While, reading you post I recall some of the reasons why I left the Presbyterian Church USA (PCUSA) unlike the conservative Presbyterian denomination such as the Orthodox Presbyterian Church (OPC), Reformed Presbyterian Church North America (RPCNA) and our denomination the Presbyterian Church in America (PCA), the PCUSA is not just theologically liberal but politically as well. So before we go pointing fingers at Rome and trying to remove the splinters in their eyes, we as Reform and Presbyterians need to look at the largest Presbyterian church in America the PCUSA and remove the giant log that to those who are not aware give all Presbyterians a bad name.

The PCUSA on the website have position papers here are some of their enlighten viewpoints on Abortion.

“Presbyterians have struggled with the issue of abortion for more than 30 years, beginning in 1970 when the General Assembly, the national governing body of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) declared that, “the artificial or induced termination of a pregnancy is a matter of careful ethical decision of the patient…and therefore should not be restricted by law…” In the years that followed this action, the General Assembly has adopted policy and taken positions on the subject of abortion.”
“When an individual woman faces the decision whether to terminate a pregnancy, the issue is intensely personal, and may manifest itself in ways that do not reflect public rhetoric, or do not fit neatly into medical, legal, or policy guidelines. Humans are empowered by the spirit prayerfully to make significant moral choices, including the choice to continue or end a pregnancy. Human choices should not be made in a moral vacuum, but must be based on Scripture, faith, and Christian ethics. For any choice, we are accountable to God; however, even when we err, God offers to forgive us.”
Oh, believe me there are more doublespeak and cumulativeness that goes on in the General Assembly of the PCUSA. For more enlighten views of our liberal brethren
Contrast it to the 1978 (PCA) Position Paper on Abortion, in short Murder is Murder

Malcolm said...

I think there is a real rising of awareness and commitment to the Pro Life cause. We were at the Kansans for Life banquet last Thursday and attendance was 300 more than last this economy. There were almost 1000 people there, and every one who came knew they were going to be asked to donate. I am directly involved with KFL and I am running their fund raising golf marathon this year. They have been doing this event for 14 years. What distresses me the most in looking at the event's history is that the local Catholic churches and the Knights of Columbus have carried most of the burden in the fund raising. There are no protestant churches that have formed a team of golfers/fund raisers to support KFL. Without the Catholic Church KFL would be grossly underfunded.

Zach said...

Tony, I am blessed to be in a parish where such views are the norm. My octogenarian pastor preaches unceasingly against the Culture of Death (in all its manifestations), and my Bishop, Robert Finn of KC-St. Joseph, is a lion on these issues (as is Abp. Naumann on the KS side).

I also have a great deal of confidence in Pope Benedict. None of us knows exactly what was said in his meeting with Pelosi. As prudence would require, most bishops will only dispense spiritual medicine after they have personally met with the patient. My great hope is that, now that B16 has met with Pelosi, disciplinary measures will be forthcoming.

And I don't think that a base concern over "losing numbers" enters into Benedict's thinking at all. Over the years, the Church has held its ground on some very unpopular teachings in the face of massive pressure--and not a few defections--and Benedict himself, a few years before rising to the Chair of Peter, said the following:

"Maybe we are facing a new and different kind of epoch in the church's history, where Christianity will again be characterized more by the mustard seed, where it will exist in small, seemingly insignificant groups that nonetheless live an intense struggle against evil and bring good into the world--that let God in."

Frontier Forest said...

How long will the Lord allow this abomination to continue? Where is this sin-sick world headed? I think we all know that God’s wrath of judgment on our own country will be sooner than later. Pastor Tony, you were right on! Even though we feel helpless and almost hopeless, those within the Catholic Church and every true believer must never grow weary and give up! Even if crying in the wilderness is all we can do! Nancy Pelosi, Joe Biden, Ten Kennedy are all a disgusting disgrace to mankind and especially to the Catholic Church! God save our Nation!

Frontier Forest said...

He was not able to post but a good thought from my brother, Jim Woodward, a devout Beliver within the Catholic Church in Broken Arrow:
"I don't believe the Vatican allows this type of mockery when it comes to the question of "When does life begin?" It begins at the moment of conception and that has been the church's position for hundreds of years. But as all "good" politicians like to "redefine" everything under the Son, this is just one more attempt to excuse her misunderstanding of Church Doctrine, or maybe a vote getting attempt, considering where she lives, by the Speaker to garner more attention to her real agenda. They did this in Germany to insure a "Master Race" and we seem to be following in that path. God save us from these fickle and feckless politicians."